How to Find a Lost cat Podcast tips

Interview with the Lost Cat Finder Pet Detective

Kristiina Wilson (00:00)

Hi and welcome back to another episode of Hiss & Tell. With me today is Kim Freeman. She is a professional lost cat finder. She has found cats in nearly every state and in 24 countries around the world. Welcome Kim.

Kimberley (00:14)

Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.

Kristiina Wilson (00:16)

Thank you for being,

thanks for being on the podcast. This has been like a super asked about topic is, know, what do I do if my cat gets lost? What's a great way to find my cat? So I'm so grateful that you were willing to come in and talk with me. Can you tell me a little bit about how you became a professional lost cat detective?

Kimberley (00:37)

It kind of started just with my own when I was 10 years old, Clancy, our family cat disappeared. And I mean, this isn't like the professional beginning, but it's kind of what intrigued me. Clancy was missing for about a week. And one day I was out playing with my brother in the driveway and I heard a squirrel.

Kristiina Wilson (00:42)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kimberley (00:59)

from the roof scolding. And I looked up to ask the squirrel, why are you mad at me? And I saw Clancy's face up in the attic fan, up by the top of the roof. So the squirrel was scolding him. And we were shocked. It's like, and you know, my brother's like, no, that's not him. That's, you're just seeing things. But it was him. He had been up there about a week and.

Kimberley (01:24)

really skinny. We never heard him cry. I just saw his little face peeking through like the fan blades, the big attic fan. So, you know, from then on, whenever, you know, my dad would be out walking with me in the neighborhood and whenever I saw a lost cat flyer or poster, I'd say, one day I'm going to find them all. And he's like, no, Kimberly, you don't realize how many there are. That's sweet. So,

Kimberley (01:51)

You know flash forward many years and my own cat went missing, Mr. Purr. And I lived on a horse farm. And next door was this cattle rancher. And he had all of these like container sheds where he would put his equipment. And Mr. Purr had gotten trapped in one of those sheds. So that was my first experience other than Clancy of

Kristiina Wilson (01:59)

Mm-hmm.

it.

Kimberley (02:16)

what it feels like when your cat is missing and the despair and the worry and the fear. And this guy was such a grump. We were kind of scared of him, but I had to ask, you know, to go over and physically search the area. Cause you know, Mr. Purr didn't miss meal times and I knew something was wrong. And yeah, he was trapped in that shed.

Kristiina Wilson (02:27)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kimberley (02:40)

So I started doing cases for free just to help people because I was like, the despair and the worry and guilt, it's so devastating.

Kristiina Wilson (02:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yes. It's

such an awful feeling.

Kimberley (02:49)

Horrible. And nobody quite gets it until they go through it. So I started, well, I took training. I don't know if you're aware of Kat Albrecht, but she really pioneered the field. She did missing persons and she had a bloodhound that looked for missing people. And then her bloodhound went missing and she had to use another bloodhound to find him. Yeah. And that's when she realized, you know, someone should be doing this.

Kristiina Wilson (02:58)

Mm-mm.

Mmm.

my gosh.

Mm.

Kimberley (03:16)

You know, the government, the FBI, everybody jumps in when it's a kid, but nobody's helping out with pets. And using police procedurals, you know, science to find lost pets instead of, you know, the myths and memes and litter box tricks and, you know, magic wands and animal communicators. So that's what really intrigued me was the science behind it and the way cats behave.

Kristiina Wilson (03:27)

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Sure.

Kimberley (03:46)

Cat behavior is so different when they're lost in stress than when they're in the house.

Kristiina Wilson (03:49)

Yeah.

Well, can you talk a little bit more about that? How and why do cats behave so differently when they're lost?

Kimberley (03:57)

Well, think about when you've moved. That's kind of an example of a cat under stress, right? Or when there's a party and the cat isn't doing their normal things and acting like they normally do. Sometimes they don't want to eat. Sometimes they hide for hours after people have left. Cats just behave differently when they're stressed. mean, even feral cats, if something disturbs their environment, they're going to behave differently too.

Kristiina Wilson (04:03)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Kimberley (04:23)

But then, you know, it breaks down into, you know, the skittish timid cats versus the more outgoing bold gregarious cats. You know, they're going to behave differently ⁓ and hide longer and in different places. ⁓ So, yeah, behavior changes so much when a cat's stressed and lost is kind of the ultimate stress, especially if

Kristiina Wilson (04:29)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (04:50)

People have done things like, litter box often will attract other cats in to see who's this, what's this smell, who's this new intruder. And then the cat's even more stressed because he got picked on or bullied or chased further away by another cat or a scary raccoon they've never seen before. What the hell is that? Or even coyotes sometimes are drawn in by the smell of cat poop.

Kristiina Wilson (04:59)

Great.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (05:20)

So yeah, that can make them even more stressed than they were already.

Kristiina Wilson (05:25)

Sure. Yeah, it's funny. Steve, who I was telling you about before, my best friend Kat, passed, he, when he was, I'd say like a teen, he got lost just for the day. And it was terrifying because I had in the city where we lived at the time, I had a little yard that was totally fenced in, but he managed to get up over the wall and fall over into the next yard. And yeah, and I, you know, didn't realize for a bit. then

just absolutely lost my mind, like covered the neighborhood and flyers and, you know, just offered like a bajillion dollar reward and was just absolutely, absolutely losing my mind. then eventually somebody, the super of the building next door was like, I think that cat, you know, I think I saw him in the basement of literally the building next door. which has been my experience and you can tell me if this is, is

true or not that when cats are lost there at least in my experience they're not very far away. He at least was 20 feet away. He had just fallen over this fence and so I went in into the basement of that building and he was just rolling around in like a puddle of oil in the disgusting unfinished basement of this tenement house in New York City but once he saw me come in he freaked out.

He just really freaked out, even though we were best friends. He freaked out and he was like hissing and fighting and he was trying to bite me and I had to towel him to get him in a carrier to get him home. And it was it was really crazy.

And then as soon as we got home, he was fine. It was like nothing had happened except that I had to give him a bath to get all the oil off, was he did not love that. He didn't love that. But it was really such an awful, terrifying experience.

Kimberley (06:58)

Yeah

every every story is another data point. And yes, sometimes they are close by. Was he indoor only?

Kristiina Wilson (07:10)

Yes, except for they had access to our little yard, which they only ever had access, like obviously when we were home and supervised and then I must've just had my eyes off of him for a second and he fell over this wall. So.

Kimberley (07:24)

Yeah.

Oh, yes. Very stressful. you know, a lot of behavior comes into play there. know, cats, when they're in a new environment, and he was stuck in there, right? He couldn't get home. He was trapped in there. Yeah. And you approached him. All he knew was, and the smell of all that oil, probably he couldn't pick up your scent. He just knew something big is coming. And cats just...

Kristiina Wilson (07:29)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Kimberley (07:54)

you you tried to pick him up. I can't tell you how many people have found their cat and then got bitten and scratched when they tried to pick him up. And this was the sweet cat who would never do that normally. Yeah, it's, you know, predator prey instincts kicking in and they are just fighting for their life. It's nothing personal.

Kristiina Wilson (07:55)

Right.

Yeah.

Of course. Yeah.

Yeah.

no, I didn't take it personally. It was just, and this was way before I knew anything about behavior. This was when I was still a photographer and I was just acting on stupid instinct. Like, it's Steve. I'm going to go grab him. Dumb. But no, didn't take it personally. It was not, you know, he was just being reactive and fair enough. but it was interesting. The second he got home, he was just like, yeah, whatever. Like immediately fine.

Kimberley (08:36)

like nothing

Kristiina Wilson (08:38)

fine

Kimberley (08:38)

happens.

Kristiina Wilson (08:39)

and filthy and yeah just cool no whatever but you know i'll tell you it never happened again never ever ever happened again so what are some of the biggest misconceptions that you find that people have about what a lost cat might do

Kimberley (08:44)

Hmm.

Most people assume the cat will come when they call. Right? And that, you know, they always come running in the house when I shake the treat jar. I'll just walk around the neighborhood shaking the treat jar. Those are two big misconceptions. A litter box is another one. Oh, I'll just put out the litter box. I think also people spend way too much time and have too much hope in posting on social media.

Kristiina Wilson (08:58)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Mm hmm.

Kimberley (09:23)

I mean, the odds of someone seeing your cat who also happens to follow a lost pet page and who happens to look into, mean, it's just the odds are pretty slim. They also have a lot of faith in microchips. he's chipped. Somebody on the binary is found, you know.

Kristiina Wilson (09:31)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kimberley (09:43)

Those are all kind of common things. The litter box, think, is finally, that myth is getting exploded a little bit and people are realizing that it's superstition, not science. But yeah, those are the probably biggest ones, the biggest misconceptions. They also, let me say, will assume if they've been missing, I went back over my cases to figure out some data.

Kristiina Wilson (09:53)

Mm-hmm.

So, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (10:07)

People will assume after three days their cat is dead.

Kristiina Wilson (10:11)

Three days?

Kimberley (10:12)

Three days to a week, they think all of us lost must be dead. Yeah, it's crazy. Now.

Kristiina Wilson (10:21)

That doesn't make it,

cats can survive. Like that doesn't make any sense.

Kimberley (10:24)

I

know cats can survive way longer than that without food.

Kristiina Wilson (10:28)

Yeah, it's interesting. Last season, I talked to one of the guys from Canopy Cat Rescue. ⁓ And he was talking about a similar thing about how some of the cats that he's rescued have been up in a tree with also no food, no water for a week, two weeks, like long times that cats can go. Obviously, they should not go, but that they can really survive for a long time.

Kimberley (10:36)

Yeah, Sean.

Kristiina Wilson (10:55)

without food and water.

Kimberley (10:57)

Well,

there's always bugs in trees, but yes.

Kristiina Wilson (11:00)

Yeah, but his point was that these cats are so they're so stressed up there, like clinging to the top of a tree that even though they could possibly like condensation from leaves or they could possibly, but they're probably not because they're so highly stressed. it's just an interesting point because I think a lot of even, there's a lot of stuff out in, even in the literature saying, you know, cats have to have.

food and water and after three to four days they will start to have you know kidney and liver failure because they need like protein constantly so it's it's interesting to hear these kind of anecdotal cases sharing the survival that's possible

Kimberley (11:33)

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, when Mr. Purr went missing, I was a little less worried because he was kind of tubby. And it actually turns out that the cats that are a little overweight are more prone to hepatic lipidosis if they don't eat for three days. Yeah, you would think that those fat reserves would keep them good for a little while, but it's more dangerous. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (11:55)

Interesting.

Hmm.

Interesting.

I read years ago this really interesting book called The World Without Us. And it's essentially what would happen to the Earth if people were suddenly wiped off the face of the Earth, right? ⁓ And it takes you through the science of what would happen to buildings and what would happen to the ecosystem. And then it goes through what would happen to companion animals and to all animals. And the really interesting thing was that the author

Kimberley (12:15)

Hmm?

Kristiina Wilson (12:28)

did not think that most dogs would survive. know, that at first they could form kind of roving gangs with other dogs, but eventually they would not be able to survive. But who would survive easily? Cats. Easily. No problemo. Cats would survive.

So it is really interesting to kind of think about all of that stuff together and think about cats as survivors as well. Not to say that your indoor only cat who was not used to that lifestyle will fare great if they suddenly get lost, like run out the door and get lost.

Kimberley (13:02)

But they will figure out a system and adapt.

Kristiina Wilson (13:05)

So I wanted to ask you, why is it that so many cats just hide silently when they hear their people calling for them? Is it just the stress?

Kimberley (13:13)

It is mostly the stress. ⁓ Cats have amazing hearing. I think people underestimate the hearing. think I have read that they have the best in terms of frequencies from low to high of any land mammal better than elephants. Now, bats are a mammal, but they're an heir.

Kristiina Wilson (13:15)

Yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. They do.

They do.

Yeah.

Kimberley (13:40)

I'm not counting bats and moths, but yeah, cats have amazing, they can hear a mouse underground move, right? I want an example story. People never believe this, but Henry, who was my search cat, was sleeping next to me while I was working one night, sound asleep. He suddenly woke up, jumped up, looked out the front window.

Kristiina Wilson (13:43)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kimberley (14:10)

There was an orange cat walking on concrete, just walking past.

Kristiina Wilson (14:15)

Mmm.

Kimberley (14:16)

How, Henry was inside, this cat's outside, and it woke him up out of his sleep. How do you hear cat paws on?

Kristiina Wilson (14:25)

Yeah, I wonder if he smelled him too. Because they also have such a good sense of smell, but who knows?

Kimberley (14:29)

They do

have a good sense of smell. It's probably a combination of both. But yeah, it's truly amazing.

Kristiina Wilson (14:35)

Yeah. Yeah.

What kind of behavioral clues can help you predict where a cat might be? Like how do you go about figuring out where somebody might be hiding?

Kimberley (14:49)

Well, you know, it does, it starts with, is this cat indoor or out?

Kristiina Wilson (14:55)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (14:57)

indoor and got out, they're going to be hiding more likely under something. An outdoor cat that goes missing is probably stuck somewhere. So, you know, outdoor cats aren't, you know, as skittish in hiding of everything because they're used to their routine and they're, know, a lot of times they have a patrol and they go here and they check this and sniff that. But a lot of times cats that are outdoor,

Kristiina Wilson (15:02)

Right.

Mmm.

Great. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kimberley (15:25)

get curious like I've never been in this garage before. Let me check it out. Or this shed, you know, someone's doing yard work and the shed's wide open and they're, I haven't claimed this is mine yet. Let me go in. And then they get closed up and shut in like, like Steve did in that basement. It's horrible. Poor baby.

Kristiina Wilson (15:29)

Hmm

Right.

Yeah, the basement, the grody basement. Yeah, it's so gross.

Yeah.

Kimberley (15:52)

⁓ But yeah,

so a lot of it is whether they're indoor outdoor skittish timid, but then there's also factors like you gotta look at what was the weather doing? What time of day was it? Wind is very disorienting to cats. I would say more so than rain. Wind is worse. They can't hear as well. They don't have their sense of smell because the wind is disrupting everything.

Kristiina Wilson (15:57)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Huh.

Mmm.

Kimberley (16:19)

So the weather is important, population density, know, are you urban, are you in the city or the country, you know, how many people, how many cars, you know, a cat that's lost in an apartment complex is a whole different case than a cat that's lost out in the country, obviously. So all of those factors go into kind of analyzing the highest probability and where to look and what happens.

Kristiina Wilson (16:37)

Sure.

Right, that makes

sense. Is there behavioral research that has influenced how you approach finding a lost cat? Or is it just everything that you've just kind of learned as you go?

Kimberley (16:57)

Well, it's both. It's both. ⁓ A lot of what I do has been informed by studies into... There are not a lot of studies on lost cats. ⁓ More people seem to be interested in dogs. There have been two good studies. ⁓ Sample sizes weren't huge, but still it's something. I've also really been influenced by tracking. Being able to...

Kristiina Wilson (16:59)

Right.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kimberley (17:23)

find tiny little clues and start to form a database on what cats typically do, for an example. Indoor cats, when they get out, based on the fur clues and footprints and things that I've seen, paw prints, they generally will go around the perimeter of a building. They're not going out in a straight line, they're not running across the street, they're going all the way around the walls first.

Kristiina Wilson (17:30)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (17:48)

That's kind of what they do first. Sometimes they're looking for a way to get back in. And if they can't get back in, then the next thing is where's the dark place to hide? And I have found a lot of times an indoor only cat that gets out is more prone to go downhill if they have a choice. Yeah. I'm not sure why that is. No one studied that. But I do see a trend that they often had downhill if, you know, it's

Kristiina Wilson (18:06)

Huh, interesting.

Yeah.

Kimberley (18:18)

equal in terms of bushes. Like they're not going to go downhill if it's a wide open space. They're more likely to go uphill if there's a lot of bushes.

Kristiina Wilson (18:20)

Right.

Yeah,

I was gonna say maybe downhill feels less exposed somehow or more hidey since they're predators and prey and they're surprise predators. So maybe the downhill just feels somehow more hidden. Yeah.

Kimberley (18:42)

Yeah, it's also easier to move downhill

and people tend when they've got two ways to go, they tend to go downhill. Sometimes it's path of least resistance.

Kristiina Wilson (18:52)

Huh.

Yeah, that's fair. That's so interesting.

That's cool. That's a lot to think about just right there. are there other patterns in your data about the distance that they tend to travel, like indoor cats when they get out?

Kimberley (19:08)

Yes, there was a really good study by Professor Lord, and then there was another one by Elizabeth. And the data is conflicting, and it doesn't really agree with my experience either. ⁓

Kristiina Wilson (19:22)

Mm-hmm.

Are these those studies that

were done in England?

Kimberley (19:29)

England and Queensland, Australia. Yeah. I can send you. These are really interesting, but you know it really bugs me when they say, well there were two cats that were found so far away that we threw out that data.

Kristiina Wilson (19:31)

Yes.

Yeah.

Kimberley (19:45)

because there's no way a cat could travel that far. Well, maybe they got accidentally transported and you still need to include that because it does happen. And I guess they thought it would skew the median or mess up the data too much.

Kristiina Wilson (19:52)

Right.

Yeah, it's gonna,

to do a good statistical analysis, you do have to throw out the outliers, but I understand also why you should not. And maybe adding in a separate analysis for those outliers would make use of that data. Because I agree with you, it should still be used, but I also understand why they couldn't include it.

you know, in the statistical analysis. It's frustrating. That's frustrating.

Kimberley (20:25)

Yeah.

Yeah, and I would love to see a study on how many cats get transported because, when I was learning lost cat behavior and how to profile cats to, you know, like the FBI profiles missing persons, I really thought, you know, there are eight probabilities of what could happen to the cat, you know.

Kristiina Wilson (20:34)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (20:53)

Lost translates down, he could be stuck and trapped, he could be dead, he could just be hiding in silence, I could have been taken by a predator, but transported is one. And I remember learning and thinking, that's so unlikely, statistically, how many cats are gonna get in a car. But it's not that they're jumping, they're not jumping into like an open window.

Kristiina Wilson (21:05)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

It's not. Yeah.

Kimberley (21:19)

They're climbing up under usually SUVs that have those platforms of space underneath them. And when the car starts, you know, this is why I ask in profiling, what does your cat do when there's a loud noise? Do they freeze or do they run? And a lot of cats will just freeze in place, especially if it's raining or a car chase, a dog chased them under the car. They're not about to come out into the jaws of a dog.

Kristiina Wilson (21:23)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (21:49)

And they'll just freeze and the car starts and starts moving and they're like, my God, this is scary. And then the car comes to a stop and they think, it's over. And then the car starts again and they start to panic and eventually they will jump out. Some cats will jump at what I have found very interesting to me is at the third stop. Not every time, but I do see data that shows it's

Kristiina Wilson (21:58)

Right.

Kimberley (22:16)

often the third place the car paused, turned, or stopped. And I think it's because the second time the car stops, they're like, I gotta jump. I gotta get out of here and I worked up the nerve yet. But the third time they're like, I see a trend here. I'm gonna go for it. Yeah. So

Kristiina Wilson (22:19)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Enough, yeah.

Right.

I had a, a client a few years ago who came to me for help with socializing she worked in a warehouse for like construction material and the cat had ended up being transported to their warehouse in one of their trucks in like, I feel like they were like big like,

concrete tubes or it was something that the cat had been transported like halfway across the country on a flatbed in this construction material and arrived like

bedraggled and obviously freaked out and she was caring for the cat in the warehouse just trying to get him to calm down and then eventually adopted him and he now lives happily with her. But that was the first case that I remember hearing of a cat being accidentally transported and he wasn't microchipped. You know, there was no way to figure out where did this cat come from. it was an interesting case that I had just in my own clinical practice of this actually happening.

are there common behavior mistakes that people make when they're searching, what dumb things do we do as humans when we're looking for our cats?

Kimberley (23:40)

We tend to just walk around calling, shaking drapes. We, not including me. And assuming the cat's gonna come out, just, here I am. ⁓ I think litter box is a dumb thing, for sure, because you're actually jeopardizing your cat's safety and possibly life.

Kristiina Wilson (23:44)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (23:59)

It's also, I think, really bad. I'm seeing a lot of trends lately for just put out a trap.

Kristiina Wilson (24:08)

no.

Kimberley (24:09)

And I also see people saying search at night with a flashlight and you can see their eyes. So both of those can be bad. A, the trap is kind of like a litter box because you're putting food in your own yard and attracting other

Kristiina Wilson (24:22)

Well, and you're gonna trap all kinds of stuff too. Yeah.

Kimberley (24:25)

Yes, all kinds of stuff. And that

stuff that gets trapped, if your cat sees it, it's going to scare them and then they're going to be like, I'm not going in that thing. So you don't want to invite other animals. Now, if you have a sighting, yes, put up a trap. But putting a trap in your own yard is just inviting, it's kind of like a litter box. You're inviting trouble. So I wouldn't say it's a dumb thing. It's just counterintuitive to what people, they don't think it through. Just like,

Kristiina Wilson (24:33)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Right.

Kimberley (24:53)

calling out a search dog for a lost cat. How many cats are gonna let some like panting, drooling dog walk up to them? They're gonna run further away. So a lot of things that are, they're not dumb, they're just, you gotta think it through from the cat's point of view.

Kristiina Wilson (24:59)

I just.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's fair. I just realized we never actually talked about the patterns that you found in the distance traveled. Like how far do cats usually go? if an indoor cat gets out and is lost in your data, how far do you find they typically go?

Kimberley (25:28)

Well, my data shows six, well, this is assuming a suburban block, six houses in all directions. used to, I don't know if the data has changed or I just have more of it, but I used to focus on 250 feet radius for an indoor cat, an outdoor cat 500. That's kind of my rule of

Kristiina Wilson (25:36)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (25:54)

The Queensland study found 17 houses for outdoor access cats was more typical. And I think indoor was three houses.

Kristiina Wilson (25:54)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (26:12)

But again, not a huge sample size, not as large as the sample size of my own experience. And indoor homes are more likely to get transported too. so it really bugs me when I see people say, search with a flashlight at night, which is not a good idea, and they're hiding close by. People are cutting and pasting this advice they picked up from somewhere. And they always say,

Kristiina Wilson (26:18)

Right. Well, I wonder.

Yeah.

That's what happens

here.

Kimberley (26:39)

two to three houses, but indoor only cats are often transported because they do hide under cars and they're so scared, especially, let's say it's raining and the best place they can hide from all the people walking dogs is under car. If it's raining and the water starts running and their feet are getting wet, they go up.

Kristiina Wilson (26:51)

Mm-hmm.

up into the car. Yeah.

Kimberley (27:02)

into

the chassis. Usually it's a skid plate. For some reason, I have found Toyota RAV4s are especially appealing to cats. They have this like basket in the front that's like perfect, you know, and when the car starts driving, they're not getting wind in their face or anything. They're just in this little sealed little basket of RAV4s. I had a case in Brooklyn where the cat disappeared into a parking lot and it was the RAV4.

Kristiina Wilson (27:04)

Mm-hmm.

Huh. ⁓

man.

Kimberley (27:31)

Anyway, indoor only cats often get transported and people don't consider that. And they think after a week or two of no sightings, the cat's dead when actually it could easily be across town. And when I work with people and they listen to me and follow up on that possibility, I tell them about the three stops in every direction. A lot of times they find their cat and they're just amazed and astonished because they didn't think that was possible.

Kristiina Wilson (27:42)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kimberley (27:57)

my cat hates cars and would never go near a car. Well, that's if it's running. If it's sitting still and it's near where they want to hide and it's raining or it's windy, cars like a cat cave.

Kristiina Wilson (28:02)

Right. Yeah.

It's true. I've, I have pulled a lot of cats out of a lot of cars, just, just working feral cases and, doing rescue work in New York city. have pulled a lot of cats out of chassis, out of engines, a lot of, a lot of that. So my experience is that cats love to climb up into a car.

Kimberley (28:15)

Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (28:31)

So moving on, can you tell me a little bit about your lost cat kit and what's involved?

Kimberley (28:38)

The Lost Cat Kit was created so that somebody in another country or another state can sort of have my advice without having to fly me there and hire me in person. So it's basically everything I've learned. I update it about every year, every two years. So the video, it's kind of a show and tell. So the book tells people,

Kristiina Wilson (28:49)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (29:05)

this kind of cat in this situation, this probability, this is the path to follow. It explains cat behavior. It's basically a crash course on being your own cat detective. And then the video shows how I do tracking, how I do my searches, the gear that I use, how to use the gear, how to set up traps and cameras.

Kristiina Wilson (29:17)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (29:27)

just little tips that so you know they feel like I'm there helping them. Because it's a lot, it's a lot to learn when you kind of get thrown into it. It's like which one should I buy? know gear that you might not ever have thought of to use for cats like a plumber's borescope and you know amplified listening devices things like that so that people can kind of get the key equipment they need for whatever their situation is.

Kristiina Wilson (29:29)

Right.

I bet.

Mmm.

Okay, is there a link that people can go to to find your lost cat kit? Where do they find this?

Kimberley (30:04)

It's on my website, lostcatfinder.com.

Kristiina Wilson (30:08)

Okay.

There it is.

Kimberley (30:10)

And I think it's under lost cat kit.

Kristiina Wilson (30:14)

Okay, cool. I will put a link to that also in the show notes for everybody. So you guys can find it. And hopefully nobody needs it.

But

it will be nice to be able to actually post this for people to use. So.

Kimberley (30:27)

Yeah,

you know, really, it's helped thousands and thousands of people who were on the verge of giving up. They're like, ugh, I can't believe this information. It's, you know, it's beyond the typical stuff that's out there.

Kristiina Wilson (30:35)

I bet.

Yeah.

what clues do you look for that you think most people miss when you're looking for a cat?

Kimberley (30:46)

Fur. When cats are stressed, they shed like crazy. I'm sure when you've pulled cats out of engines, there was a ton of fur in your hand and left behind. And Sean from Canopy Cats probably knows when a cat's been up in the tree, clumps of fur on the bottom. Yeah. So fur clues are very helpful. They show me where a cat's been, where they...

Kristiina Wilson (30:48)

Mmm.

It's true.

Yes.

I bet.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (31:13)

where they bedded down sometimes. So I know this is where they're sleeping. A lot of times cats will have one hiding place in the day and one at night. And they move between the two usually, you know, in the wee hours. But yeah, fur people just don't notice fur. When they're searching for their cat, they're looking for their whole cat. You know, they're looking for the cat's body and they're not seeing little things like, you know, unfortunately sometimes I have had coyote cases and

Kristiina Wilson (31:20)

Mmm.

Right.

Kimberley (31:43)

There's nothing but fur left, but the person was walking past it every day because they're looking for their cat and they didn't see. Yeah. But fur also shows me, you know, even if it's just he went through these bushes, gives you a direction of travel. You know, you can analyze and see if it's your cat or another cat, you know, if you look at it closely. Fur.

Kristiina Wilson (31:45)

Yeah.

See, yeah.

Mmm.

Kimberley (32:06)

Paw prints, sometimes I'll find a poop pile. You can see the little scrape marks, you know? I always ask people when I'm working with them, does your cat cover their poop in the litter box or do they just kind of leave it up, leave it there and jump out? That's also a good clue. But yeah, fur paw prints. I look and see, you know.

Kristiina Wilson (32:10)

⁓ Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (32:29)

what the weather was that day, but also are there any lost dogs? Are there any loose dogs that could have chased your cat? And on next door, often you'll have, you'll be able to go through the post and see who lost a dog, how close to you are they? Has the dog been recovered? Was the dog out loose while your cat was missing? All of those are really kind of, you know, detective work clues that most people don't think to do. ⁓ Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (32:37)

Mmm.

Right.

Okay, those are really interesting. The fur thing is very interesting. That totally makes sense. And the track. Yeah.

Kimberley (33:02)

Yeah, fur is an amazing clue. People slow

down and look for it. Another one is claw marks on fences. You can see, if you look at a fence carefully, like a wooden fence, not chain link. But you can see where the cat stepped over a rail and their tummy fur got caught. You can see when they go under a fence, I'll see a smooth place in the dirt. And then if I put my flashlight on the bottom of the fence, I'll see a couple of hairs clinging.

Kristiina Wilson (33:18)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (33:29)

You know, claw marks if the cat jumped over a fence, you see where their little hind claws dug in. It's usually about 12 inches below the top of the fence. And you can see where they jumped.

Kristiina Wilson (33:30)

Yeah.

Kimberley (33:41)

Let me just ask about Steve. When this happened with the fence, how old was he?

Kristiina Wilson (33:42)

Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Oh, he was barely a year, I think. He was quite young. So that's why I think he was still like a kind of a teen and inexperienced. And that's, think why it never happened again. Once, you know, it happened the one time he learned and then he was much more careful after that.

Kimberley (33:49)

Hmm.

Yeah. You know, something I learned from vets is that most cats that are hit by cars are young males. And you know, they're out there like an 18 year old boy. Nothing can hurt me taking risks. Often unneutered, you know, they're crossing streets and doing whatever they want. between like

Kristiina Wilson (34:12)

Make sense.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah Yeah

Kimberley (34:26)

one and two years old is kind of the range.

Kristiina Wilson (34:30)

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me and I think, you know, this applies to all mammals is that I forget the statistic, but I think it's like 51 % of...

births are males versus 49. It's a tiny percentage, but it's enough because there is that extra percentage of males of any mammalian species is going to act up in a stupid way and get themselves killed. But it's true. That's what happens. They act up. They take too many risks. They do something stupid. They take themselves out of the gene pool so that by the time they reach sexual maturity and it's time to start mating, there are now an equal amount of males and females that are available in the gene pool, like circulating of the same age group.

Kristiina Wilson (35:17)

Do you find that people think that a microchip is also a tracker?

Kimberley (35:22)

Yes!

But yes, I think some people don't microchip their cat because they don't want it to be tried. They're just so suspicious of microchip. Now Bill Gates is getting in my life.

Kristiina Wilson (35:26)

Yes.

It's tracking my cat!

Kimberley (35:38)

Like they care about cats in the first place.

Kristiina Wilson (35:41)

I know! The government's gonna track where my cat is! It's so funny! Love that idea.

Kimberley (35:46)

Or they're gonna eavesdrop

on me through my cat.

Kristiina Wilson (35:49)

through my cat's neck. Meanwhile, person's walking around with one of these, you know, like the government's listening to me through my cat, but I've got this next to me at all times. But it's not through this that, you know, I always have on my person. This is not the mechanism.

Kimberley (35:50)

Yeah, they're my cat's flesh.

Yes.

Uh-huh.

All right, so yes, there is

still a huge misconception about microchips when I moved to Texas, my, person I was living with, my cat got out within one of the first few nights because he had left the door open. And it was like,

Kristiina Wilson (36:26)

Ugh. ⁓ no.

Kimberley (36:31)

Oh, you don't have to worry. It's microchipped. You can just track where he goes. And this was what I thought was an educated pet owner. Now, granted, this was 2004, but still. Yeah, people still think microchips are tracking devices. it's ID only and only if it's scanned. If someone first has to find the cat.

Kristiina Wilson (36:39)

Ugh.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm

Well, you have to register it and then yeah

Kimberley (36:56)

and register it, right?

And then if the cat is microchipped and someone does find it, they have to catch the cat, which, know, that's hard enough on its own, but especially by a stranger, and then transport the cat to, you know, a Banfield or a vet and ask them to scan it. I kind of wish vets, you know, so many people, I think it's 30, 34, 35 % of cats own were

Kristiina Wilson (37:16)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (37:26)

found or obtained because they just showed up one day.

Kristiina Wilson (37:29)

Yeah.

Kimberley (37:30)

A lot of those were someone else's cat. And when they take that cat, they just, he chose us. He just showed up and wanted to come in. Vets aren't required to scan cats, a new patient.

Kristiina Wilson (37:36)

Right.

They're not?

Kimberley (37:43)

Nope, they're not required to scan a new case. They will if you ask them to, but most people don't. Yeah. I mean, it takes three seconds. I wish vets were required to scan new papers because so many cats that were lost, you know, they're crying at the next door neighbors and they let a man in and he's our cat now. But yeah, so think about all the variables.

Kristiina Wilson (37:48)

crazy

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kimberley (38:09)

to identify a cat with a microchip or he finally shows up at his shelter after you've stopped searching and you never registered your chip. They're not magic, they're just purely ID and yes, people do think that there are somehow tracking devices.

Kristiina Wilson (38:18)

Yeah.

Yeah, I've had a few clients who have thought that as well and I found that interesting. What do you think about actual like putting actual trackers on cats? Like that tracking collars and like the little things that you can put on your cat.

Kimberley (38:41)

Um, I was super excited. I've tried so many of those when I had Henry. And when I took my cat Henry out on lost cat cases, I had not only a, uh, a GPS tracker on him, but also RFID radio frequency, I think is in some cases better than GPS. Cause you know, GPS tracker is relying on satellites that can't see your cat under a car or underground.

Kristiina Wilson (38:46)

Same. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Kimberley (39:10)

a storm drain, but the RFIDs do. So I had, used both. RFIDs are much smaller too. You get those little tiny ones. I was really excited when AirTag came out and designed collars to hold the, everybody has them now. But I think AirTags are pretty good depending on where you live. You know, you need to be in a, you know, population where other people have iPhones for work. I can work on 15 acres probably.

Kristiina Wilson (39:17)

They are, yeah.

Mmm.

Yeah.

Right.

No,

it's not. It's not.

Kimberley (39:41)

But I also like that the air tags are round. Who designed this GPS tracker that's square that's going to poke the cat in neck? I thought air tags were a great idea, but I can't tell you, I mean could tell you if I looked it up, how many cases I've had of cats that got lost with an air tag on. And the air tag, it gives a person a sense of

Kristiina Wilson (39:46)

Mm.

Yeah.

Kimberley (40:06)

confidence that they can just let their cat out anytime to go anywhere because they always know where they are. But the collar came off or the tracker, the battery died. But I've had a few cases where the cat's collar was found and, you know, based on another clue I look at is maps of a person's area and are there power line easements?

Kristiina Wilson (40:09)

Mmm.

Sure.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (40:31)

Are there water sources? Are there creeks? Are there railroad tracks? Those are all indicative of coyote presence. Coyotes travel power lines like, you coyote highway. There are no fences. It's easy access. There's wildlife. Same for train tracks and creeks. So I guess to answer your question, what do I think about them? They can give people a false sense of security. ⁓

Kristiina Wilson (40:42)

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (40:58)

I have found more people find cats with the RFID, the radio frequency chips, ⁓ because the cat could be next door in garage and that will find them, whereas the GPS won't.

Kristiina Wilson (41:03)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Kimberley (41:12)

So it varies, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (41:14)

So what are the first two or three things that people should do within the first hour after their cats go missing? Or cat goes missing, I don't know why I pluralized that. I know, just the one cat.

Kimberley (41:25)

Yeah, hopefully only one went missing.

The first thing to do is search every inch of the house. And I told you the story about the cat that got locked up in the blanket chest. So when I say every cubic inch, you've got to look inside things, under things. You've got to even look at under the dishwasher. Nobody realizes there's behind the refrigerator. Cats can get behind and under refrigerators.

Kristiina Wilson (41:37)

Yes.

Mmm!

Kimberley (41:55)

and their collars can get tangled up in the coils. So all those, seriously every cubic inch. Post on Nextdoor because you want just your neighborhood. And I would talk to, in person, every neighbor, at least two houses adjacent to you all the way around. Get those done quickly right away. Don't worry about Facebook and posters and all that. Do those things first.

Kristiina Wilson (42:14)

Okay.

Right.

Okay.

Kimberley (42:23)

There are a lot of scams going on with lost pets right now. And people preying on the owners. ⁓ On my website, I have a list of the common scams to avoid. And unfortunately, people don't go, I wonder if I ever lose my pet if I'll get scammed. So a lot of times they've already been scammed.

Kristiina Wilson (42:26)

Mmm.

Yes.

Yeah.

Kimberley (42:43)

only respond to people who can send a picture. If someone says, I've got your cat and I need $500 for the vet because he got run over, you know, all those are.

Kristiina Wilson (42:55)

Ugh, I, that reminds me of when Steve got lost and I like immediately papered the neighborhood in flyers because I was so terrified and upset. That night, all these, cause these teens kept calling me. I guess they just thought it was like a funny prank.

And they called and they were just like, your cat's been hit by a car He's in the middle of the street blah blah blah, know And I could tell it was a prank cuz they're just dumb teens But I got so many calls like that. It's just like what is wrong with you guys. It's so awful like what an awful thing to do to somebody like ⁓ Terrible

Kimberley (43:22)

What is wrong with people, yeah?

Yeah. It

probably happens to most owners. Not only the scams, but the pranks and just mess. You shouldn't be letting your cat out. Well, I didn't. He escaped. know? Yeah. It's very sad. I would love to talk about Henry. So Henry was so special and he was my Steve, right?

Kristiina Wilson (43:31)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes

please.

Hmm.

Kimberley (43:50)

And as far as I know, he's the only cat that's ever been trained to track cats. ⁓ But I also want to talk about him because I really want to carry on his legacy. He was 20 when he died, and he was still just as friendly and fearless and carefree and sweet as ever. But.

Kristiina Wilson (43:56)

Mm-hmm.

Of course.

Kimberley (44:15)

Part of the reason I wanna talk about him is I do think there are other cats, I haven't found one yet, that can be trained to track lost cats. And I want to start teaching people how to do it. I've never revealed my secrets of how I trained him. It started with clicker training, but then it goes way beyond that. But I would love to help, I wanna leave a legacy.

Kristiina Wilson (44:21)

Mm-hmm.

That was a great idea.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (44:38)

and have other cats help cats because everybody wants to train their dog to find those cats, but it's really not, it doesn't make sense. It's not a great idea. If you're train a dog, them to find those dogs or maybe tortoises.

Kristiina Wilson (44:44)

Yeah.

No.

Kimberley (44:54)

They can't run from a dog very well.

Kristiina Wilson (44:56)

That's true. Is there a problem with lost tortoises?

Kimberley (45:00)

My first case after I was trained on the missing persons procedural use for pets was a giant African tortoise. His name was Lightning Bolt, 300 pounds, 350 pounds gigantic. And my next door neighbors had a llama farm. This was in Texas and different neighbor than the Mr. Purr rancher. And Lightning Bolt had escaped the night before and

Kristiina Wilson (45:07)

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Hmm.

Kimberley (45:26)

I tracked him. I found him. had gone and you know, it's easy to track a huge tortoise because it mashed the grass down where they go and he had crossed my pasture where my horse was and gone down a hill towards a dry creek bed and he rolled and I found him upside down at the bottom of the hill. Yeah, it took three of us to turn him over and

Kristiina Wilson (45:34)

Yeah. Right.

I bet.

Kimberley (45:55)

than get him in a golf cart to get him back home. But yeah, that was my first, well, I wouldn't say it's my first professional case, because they didn't pay me. I guess that's the definition, but it was one of the first cases after I trained, yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (46:04)

Right.

That's so cool. I imagine after that it would be pretty easy for his people to just stick a tracker on top of him. have that not happen again.

Kimberley (46:18)

Yeah, this was 2008. I don't know if they had trackers, but what I think what they did was they they stuck up flag. Like an orange flagpole.

Kristiina Wilson (46:23)

Yeah.

yeah, a flag, yeah.

Yeah, or you could put a balloon, but I guess that one lasts that long. But yeah, no, no. I like that the flag is a good idea. So anyway, what traits made Henry such an amazing tracking cat? Like what was it about him, do you think?

Kimberley (46:33)

Not with the trees and the live oaks would have popped.

He was so fearless. When I met him, before I knew him, I went to a Jackson Galaxy outdoor event in Austin. And I went to get my book signed. Jackson had just come out with his first book. And I had been at the shelter. I was doing enrichment and clicker training for the shelter cats so they would make eye contact with visitors. so, I had all my clicker stuff in the car.

Kristiina Wilson (47:07)

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (47:12)

And I'm out walking around and I see this big tuxedo cat lounging in a purple harness out on this grassy hillside, just watching all the kids screaming and the dogs walking by, just chaos. And he's just cool as can be. But, you know, the light bulb went off and it was like, instead of, you know, I was thinking about getting a bloodhound, how

Kristiina Wilson (47:27)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (47:37)

me with tracking because I was still doing dogs and cats. And I thought, why not get a cat who thinks he's a dog and train him? So I took Henry off to the side and I got my stuff out of the truck, my clicker and treats and stuff. And I wanted to see how scent focused he was. You is he interested in other cats? Is he interested in tracking scent? And he was so good. I wanted to adopt him on the spot. I'm like, this is the perfect cat for this.

Kristiina Wilson (47:40)

Right.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kimberley (48:06)

But it took me a month of begging and pleading, because they had a rule, if you adopt a cat, you can never let him outside. I'm like, well, I'm going to have him on a leash. No, can't do it. It took a month of hearing all my vet records, you know, to show that I'm a good animal guardian. Finally, one day after I was on the news, I did an interview on the news, and she called me and said, OK, come get him.

Kristiina Wilson (48:15)

⁓ Yeah.

Kimberley (48:33)

So after a month and then probably another six months to a year of training, we started doing cases. But yeah, Henry was just so fearless and so friendly and chill and he loved other cats. He especially loved kittens, but he was just curious. Yeah, he was, they do. Also, he was a peacenik. He didn't want to kill stuff. He just wanted to watch.

Kristiina Wilson (48:49)

He sounds just like Steve. They sound like exactly the same guy. Yeah.

See,

yeah.

That's so, they sound like very much like the same.

Kimberley (49:02)

you know, and people who have cats like that know they're special, but they don't know how to direct it and, you know, make them a working cat that actually has a job. And I think he loved his job. He used to, you know, when he got a chance, he would go sleep in the car. If he saw me, you know, loading my gear into the car, he would go jump and sit in the car waiting for me. Like we're going to go. I only took him though on

Kristiina Wilson (49:03)

No.

Yeah.

Right. ⁓ 100%. 100%.

Kimberley (49:29)

indoor only cat cases. Because you know gotta have a single scent trail.

Kristiina Wilson (49:32)

Yeah.

Kimberley (49:34)

yeah, I want to train. want other people to learn to, know, everybody has adventure cats. Why not? know, those are the most likely prospects.

Kristiina Wilson (49:46)

How old was he when you adopted him and when you started working with him? ⁓ okay.

Kimberley (49:50)

He was 10, so his personality

was very much already there. And I kind of thought, 10 is up there for training a cat, but he just took to it and he had a 10 year career.

Kristiina Wilson (49:55)

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing. That's amazing that you had him for that long. That's great. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure.

Kimberley (50:09)

I took really good care of him. ⁓

But yeah, I would love to see other people. And I think, you know, I've kind of worked out how I can do this and, you know, training other people to train their cats.

Kristiina Wilson (50:25)

Yeah, that's cool.

Kimberley (50:27)

So yeah, I think Henry would

like that. I've heard his voice telling me you need to do this. Pass on the torch. Yeah.

Kristiina Wilson (50:32)

Yeah, you should. You

should. You absolutely should. I think that's a great. I think that's a great idea.

Okay, so if somebody who's listening to the podcast unfortunately loses their cat tomorrow, what do you think the most important mindset is that they should have while searching?

Kimberley (50:49)

They need to realize that cats are survivors. Don't give up. Don't make assumptions. Your cat is out there somewhere. Stay determined and positive. Don't wear yourself out. You take care of yourself. Use a systematic approach that's tailored to your cat's personality, geography.

Everything about, know, whether it's an indoor or outdoor cat, all of those things need to be targeted to your cat. So don't listen to all the like cut and paste, cookie cutter, general advice. Everyone throws at you on social media. You need to follow the appropriate approach for your cat and your situation.

Kristiina Wilson (51:15)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

All right. Well, I just want to say thank you so much. This was such an important and super interesting conversation. really love talking to you. And I think this is going to be such a helpful episode for so many people. Hopefully nobody ever loses their cat ever, ever again. ⁓ And I know it would be an amazing world.

Kimberley (51:47)

It would be a great world.

Kristiina Wilson (51:50)

But unfortunately that probably isn't gonna come true. So I just hope that people are able to use all of your tips and go to lostcatfinder.com and find your kit and to be able to just use this episode for help and to share it with people that they know who may have lost their pets. So thank you so much for being on the episode.

Kimberley (52:08)

Yeah, and it's, you're

so welcome. It's good for people to know that there are cat detectives, you know, that there are people that can help. Yeah. There are pet detectives and cat detectives. It's nice that, you know, you can find someone that's more specialized in cats because we know they're very different than dogs.

Kristiina Wilson (52:17)

Yes!

I agree.

They are. All right. Thank you so much.

Kimberley (52:33)

You bet. Thank you, Kristiina